Elliot
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Is your personal identity informed by your grandparent's (or great-grandparents) history or homeland?

@Elmkast Not really because my family specifically tried to get away from that place so they wouldn't be killed

My situation feels totally bizarre - both my parents are dual-citizens, and both don't identity at ALL with their heritage or ever talk about it. Nor have any serious interest in visiting their parent's home country.

Hot take: assimilation is soul crushing and very bad. Minority cultures are a STRENGTH and the best thing Canada has going for it

@Elmkast I suspect one reason the US is relatively hostile to foreign cultures is because many former immigrants didn't want to admit they had had a minority culture

@BruceJia What do you mean? Like they didn't want to stand out?

Fun fact: "millet", the name for the legally protected minority groups in the Ottoman Empire, has many uses in modern Turkish.

@Elmkast My family's relation with the nation's history (dictatorship and colonial war) had some second order effects on my upbringing, but overall, my identity owes more to lack of legible context in a high context culture.

@Elmkast Portugal only has one big city, by international standards. Lisbon is a typical globalized city, with a modern cultural core of globalized capitalism specialized in tourism, and a dwindling amount of local flavor.

The rest of the country functions by rural small town rules. Your affiliations are very important. Hometown, family, soccer team, employer, friends, favourite pub, social class, etc.

My life history is complicated in non-interesting ways, and my affiliations are non-legible.

@machado How many generations has your family been in Portugal?

@Elmkast Somewhere between 300 and 3000 years, I guess.

@Elmkast Maybe 40000 years, assuming some percentage of neanderthal DNA

@Elmkast I'm on the fence about getting one of those ancestry dna tests. As an anonymous nobody feels perfectly safe, but if I ever went somewhere in life I wouldn't feel safe about my genome being out there.

@machado I'm on the fence about a lot of things regarding ancestry/heritage. It's such a shitshow

@Elmkast I'm just curious if I have middle eastern ancestors, because I've been mistaken for turkish by turks.

But I think how you relate to where you are in the present is more important than how you relate to a second-hand past.

@machado Depends how far back you look. I think up until your great-grandparents, very little is second-hand.

My parents were both born into *extremely* dysfunctional families. Part of that was because 3/4 of my grandparents were poor immigrants who were obsessed with status.

@machado And their lives were shaped by history - my german grandparents hiding in bomb shelters, my grandmother being born into the literally brand new Republic of Turkey.

But they were also shaped by their parents, who were, to my current knowledge, electricians, sausage makers (german stereotype) and largely illiterate.

@machado But yeah, finding out that I'm 5% Ethiopian or something is largely useless knowledge.

@Elmkast Well, I'd say focus on improving the lot of the next generations, but I'm not sure the future's worth having kids right now.

@machado @Elmkast I would have to reluctantly agree given GW and knockoff effects.

@machado Would be very ironic to be the first and last upwardly mobile generation in my family.

@machado Actually, I think my parents were the first and last. Most of my cousins are just scraping by and leaning on their parents. We have the illusion of upward mobility

@Elmkast I get that feeling. My grandparents and their siblings owned land or had respectable middle/upper-middle class professions. My parents and their siblings where lower-middle class at best. Me and my cousins are just poor.

Eventually, we'll have nobody still alive to support us, but at least our life-expectancy is lower as well, so we won't have to worry about it for too long.

@machado What is the proportion of renters versus owners in Portugal?

@Elmkast I don't have actual numbers, so I can only talk confidently about the most visible anomalous patterns. Also, a lot of rural property exists under illegal ownership for historical reasons.

Seniors are mostly owners for historical reasons.

In Lisbon, it's very skewed towards renters.

Adults under 40 are mostly renting or living in extended family homes.

Increasing amounts of foreign owners of luxury properties, mostly french, brazilian, and chinese.

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