Was talking about Mastodon with an old-school sysadmin guy. We reached the realization that defederating from instances with no/bad moderation is essentially the same thing as blocking open relays back when you ran your own email server: open relays always end up getting used for spam, you block 'em to protect your users.

Email was and still is the first federated social network, so it already faced a lot of the same problems; we should study its solutions (and its failures).

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@nindokag Makes me wonder just how practical it is to have your own email server in these days of gmail and mailru. AFAIK it would get on spam/black lists pretty quickly and into white lists never, so good luck having your mail reach anyone.

@artlav @nindokag

Many people and companies still do. And gmail's unwillingness to play nicely with them because of their own short-sighted dictatorial policies is a major reason for people drifting away from gmail. In fact, I hear more about people leaving gmail for that reason, than for ideological reasons (granted the ideological people are loud).

@jankoekepan @artlav @nindokag I am now running my own email server (again, after being an email admin for half a decade.)

Obviously I'd suggest doing it ~in the cloud~ on a reserved IP with stable documented software, but the rest is just Normal Admin Stuff. Certainly doable and Gmail doesn't whine. (The key is DKIM+SPF+rdns and checking blacklists.)

@artlav @nindokag I have run my on email server with great success for over a year with little to no problems. I use mailinabox.email

@robert @artlav @nindokag I've been running mailinabox for a few years with no issues. The only domain I sometimes have delivery issues to is Hotmail and only one person I know still uses a Hotmail address - my mother-in-law.

@artlav @nindokag people selfhost email without major difficulties beyond the initial configuration and maintenance

@artlav I run my own, and have done so for 5 or so years. I had a problem once with one specific email server where my emails ended.up in the junk folder, but that was because I wasn't using an spf DNS record. Now it's fine.

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