@Elmkast Sorry to hear it man. Family situations like this are very tough and draining even when you're not in the direct conflict zone. It's awful because unlike with friends you can't exactly walk away from it. But if the family member doesn't want to change it's nigh-on impossible to do much about it.
@Elmkast Likewise. I did a month at a time this year and last and that was also great
@alper I think I am? or have?
@alper Sounds interesting! Not familiar with Christopher Alexander
I think it was in Elephant in the Brain though where they wrote about proportion of eye contact vs looking away as signalling status, and my impression was that it happened almost instantly, within seconds of looking at each other. It would be interesting to know whether further information affects that calculus or if it remains fixed. I suspect it changes.
@Bert Acceptance is key. I've been fighting a (30-year) needle phobia that way quite successfully lately, and it's made me realise how important it is to just see a feeling for what it is and accept it rather than trying to fight it.
@zacharius Interesting, yeah I friend who mentioned that he used it for programming too. It's a good idea, maybe one I'll take up.
@lhwilkinson That's pretty terrifying but really interesting
@zacharius What do you use anki for, out of curiosity?
@zacharius Also, Socrates worried about this: http://neamathisi.com/literacies/chapter-1-literacies-on-a-human-scale/socrates-on-the-forgetfulness-that-comes-with-writing
And someone sent me this weird paper (PDF) https://users.speakeasy.net/~lion/nb/book.pdf from years ago, about writing everything down. Reminds me of GTD a bit too.
Still, I do believe in writing things down to get them off my mind. And I do find that writing itself helps consolidate thoughts. I suppose that's different from viewing it as reference material though.
I'm still split on how much to do by hand and how much to type.
@zacharius I've been thinking a lot about this issue. There's a world of difference between being able to look up a fact (ubiquitous) and knowing a fact (rare). And it's even rarer to have such a grasp of a topic that you can see abstract connections to unrelated things.
I've started using anki again, to memorise poetry of all things, and to manage a schedule of album listening. This is part of a regime of fiction, nonfiction, conversation, music, poetry, to improve writing.
@nindokag I'm pretty sure they joked about this on a recent 80,000 hours podcast. Like a subtitle to each article that gave an utilitarian ranking of how important something was. It was probably this episode:
@Bert Agreed, there are rarely hard and fast rules in the social space.
Today I've been thinking that our desire for hard and fast rules is part of what makes interpreting history hard. Because we tend to think "I would never do this or that" or "That couldn't happen today" but that's really a desire to define a rule, and a failure to imagine other conditions where other rules might apply, rather than an actual insight into why something happened.
@Bert Thanks, I hadn't heard of ACT before. Glad to hear that it's been useful.
@Bert Are you actively working on changing this? Or is it something you've just been aware of recently?
I've tried working on active listening, because as you say I do tend to get excited and carried away in conversation.
@Bert Interesting, so you have a feeling that you're deliberately saying the wrong things. I can sort of relate to that, I used to feel that I was sabotaging myself, or hedging against contact.
What I've been noticing lately is that clarifying questions, or open-ended questions that allow elaboration, are almost always welcome. Things like "So you're saying.." or "Do you mean.." seem to help me understand, and other people seem to like it. I don't think they're aggressive.
@Bert I agree, and used to have a lot of regret about things I said. As I've gotten older I've realised that quite often people don't have a great memory, so there's more leeway than you might think. Of course if you say something truly awful it would be remembered. But often social blunders that I've agonised over don't seem to make much impression.
@Bert Again, interesting. But it sort of assumes that the point of conversation is information exchange. Robin Hanson and others have argued against this point of view.
The idea is that it can't be as simple as "paying" information back, because otherwise people would be more tempted to do as you say, which is to listen and not to speak. But in fact many (most?) people also want to be heard.
@Bert It's an interesting idea that more information lowers status. I think remaining totally silent would also be low status. So there must be some mean of moderation.
I've also read, though, that status is worked out by nonverbal cues very quickly and doesn't depend as much as one might think on the content of speech. Not sure what I think about that idea though.
@nindokag Yeah it happens to me quite a lot these days. Sometimes it's disconcerting but it can be a useful antidote for lust and also sometimes counterintuitively increases my sympathy for people... Maybe just that they, like me, are stuck in this ridiculous situation of being a mammal.
It also reminds me of Yeats: "Consume my heart away; sick with desire
And fastened to a dying animal"
Californian in London. Linux sysadmin in a former life, now translating poetry, and trying to write about restructuring consciousness.
Mastodon instance for attendees of Refactor Camp, and members of various online/offline groups that have grown out of it. Related local groups with varying levels of activity exist in the Bay Area, New York, Chicago, and Austin.
Kinda/sorta sponsored by the Ribbonfarm Blogamatic Universe.
If you already know a few people in this neck of the woods, try and pick a handle they'll recognize when you sign up. Please note that the registration confirmation email may end up in your spam folder, so check there. It should come from administrator Zach Faddis.